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VGCW Suggestions and Feedback; Ideas welcome!
Topic Started: Jul 29 2015, 03:07 PM (57,539 Views)
BelmontLegend
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Furious Dancer
I don't normally post on these things cause I usually just tell you straight but, since you brought up viewership I can definitely throw my two cents in here.

I think most of us who create and those who watch know that viewership isn't what it once was, and personally I always thought that was gonna happen once Bazza left. It didn't really matter who was getting it next, when something originally ends, I've always thought it was difficult for the next in line to have that same appeal factor for anyone viewing outside of the core audience.

Second thought: We've been on 2k14 for quite a long time and with not much change on the horizon, becoming stale is the biggest problem we face. Some of us who've been watching for ages know the ins and outs of this fucking game and once you notice a trend you can typically figure it out the rest of the way. The first few VGCW Season didn't have that going for it, making it a true unique experience.

Thought Three: The channel switch killed us. Going to a different place even with all the tools being made to help the viewers get to the new channel was all for naught. That's when people decided whether or not they were gonna show up. Ultimately slashed our viewership.

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AaronTheBaron
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Yo, it's me. It's me. It's A.T.B.
KappaKappaKappa
Feb 24 2016, 04:09 PM
I have two issues.

First, I think the first is that the era of 2k14 has gone on for way too long and there is a degree of burnout. Granted there isn't much choice in the matter with regards to switching to another game, but I have been subject to the overall same style of matches for a long time, and as time goes on I have grown rather...smarky about why certain things happen, especially when understanding the mechanics behind the game. The matches are starting to blend into each other for me and it's becoming less about "Oh man this is competitive" and more "He blew his comeback, he's probably going to lose now". I find myself favoring matches less because of the wrestling itself and more because of who was in it, what the result was and probably the choice of background music.

2k14 isn't a very good game to draw people in. There's no real spice to bring in new fans or bring back old fans who stopped watching.

My second issue comes from the overall canon. VGCW has been around for years and has developed an extremely strong continuity, but this is both a blessing and a curse. There are characters and even some storylines have been around so long and developed so much that it creates a bit of an accessibility barrier for viewers, especially newer ones. I think the stories are well written, but don't allow for much flexibility if you were to jump in and catch your first/return VGCW experience with a midseason episode.

I think the problem is made worse when referencing storylines from previous seasons. As a recent example, when Barrett was making his case to Drac for his title shot there was constant references to events that happened well before I even started watching. There are similar nuances to interactions where I don't understand the importance of certain statements or actions, or why the crowd reacts a certain way when certain things happen and it makes it hard to be invested and very easy to change the channel.

Between the VGCW lore, the lore of the wrestler's original games, the mechanics of 2k14, and even the lore of real wresting promotions, I think there is too much a viewer needs to know to fully enjoy the experience
In regards to the second issue, I wonder if it could be solved in part by, in between seasons, someone creating a "Season Recap" of sorts, and perhaps also a bit of a bigger recap that could address some of the major players, their history, and such. Something that's easier to get into than reading all of the wiki pages, but still in depth enough to give viewers a good perspective on the people that they are watching.

And it could be done as a stream, probably. A "Behind the Scenes" edition of VGCW that's recorded and then used as a jumping off point for new viewers and a reference guide for them.

(Note: The show runners probably don't even have to do this themselves, if it's feeling like it'd be far too much work in between seasons and would bog down next season's planning.)
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Introbulus
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AaronTheBaron
Feb 24 2016, 04:16 PM
In regards to the second issue, I wonder if it could be solved in part by, in between seasons, someone creating a "Season Recap" of sorts, and perhaps also a bit of a bigger recap that could address some of the major players, their history, and such. Something that's easier to get into than reading all of the wiki pages, but still in depth enough to give viewers a good perspective on the people that they are watching.

And it could be done as a stream, probably. A "Behind the Scenes" edition of VGCW that's recorded and then used as a jumping off point for new viewers and a reference guide for them.

(Note: The show runners probably don't even have to do this themselves, if it's feeling like it'd be far too much work in between seasons and would bog down next season's planning.)
Even as an old fan, I have trouble remembering everything that happened. So season recaps, especially before big shows, but in particular general recap videos to cover old seasons, would be a huge boon.
Edited by Introbulus, Feb 24 2016, 04:32 PM.
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Mosaique
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>dirtsheets
We could have an episode in which all matches are replays of old matches. Matches that left huge impact on VGCW or fan favorites. Bunch of people could do commentary to provide their insight.
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AaronTheBaron
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Yo, it's me. It's me. It's A.T.B.
Mosaique
Feb 24 2016, 04:35 PM
We could have an episode in which all matches are replays of old matches. Matches that left huge impact on VGCW or fan favorites. Bunch of people could do commentary to provide their insight.
That could be good in regards to getting some important history of VGCW. Though it might not help as much in terms of recapping the more current storylines and such.
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Kirbydamasta

A lot of people hit the nail on the head with 2k14 burnout.

Honestly, it leaves me worried what we will do if 2k17 doesn't have CAS. I don't know if a lot of people want to watch yet another year of 2k14, and unless we splurge in massive production values or modding the game we've seen almost everything 2k14 can offer us.
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AaronTheBaron
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Yo, it's me. It's me. It's A.T.B.
Kirbydamasta
Feb 24 2016, 04:46 PM
A lot of people hit the nail on the head with 2k14 burnout.

Honestly, it leaves me worried what we will do if 2k17 doesn't have CAS. I don't know if a lot of people want to watch yet another year of 2k14, and unless we splurge in massive production values or modding the game we've seen almost everything 2k14 can offer us.
Well either that or the crazy thing of doing stories in 2K14 and doing matches in the later games.
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Kirbydamasta

AaronTheBaron
Feb 24 2016, 04:47 PM
Kirbydamasta
Feb 24 2016, 04:46 PM
A lot of people hit the nail on the head with 2k14 burnout.

Honestly, it leaves me worried what we will do if 2k17 doesn't have CAS. I don't know if a lot of people want to watch yet another year of 2k14, and unless we splurge in massive production values or modding the game we've seen almost everything 2k14 can offer us.
Well either that or the crazy thing of doing stories in 2K14 and doing matches in the later games.
The problem with this is that CAWs look much different in newer gens due to logo importing. There will be a large dissonance of how people look in plot and how they look in matches. In addition, this means anyone who isn't possible to make in 2k16 as of now (Bowser comes to mind) will have to be fired, and anyone who is made in 2k17 won't appear in plot.
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Introbulus
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AaronTheBaron
Feb 24 2016, 04:47 PM
Kirbydamasta
Feb 24 2016, 04:46 PM
A lot of people hit the nail on the head with 2k14 burnout.

Honestly, it leaves me worried what we will do if 2k17 doesn't have CAS. I don't know if a lot of people want to watch yet another year of 2k14, and unless we splurge in massive production values or modding the game we've seen almost everything 2k14 can offer us.
Well either that or the crazy thing of doing stories in 2K14 and doing matches in the later games.
And double our PSQuality potential issues?

Sounds good to me. :D

(for real tho, maybe??? It would for awhile solve the problem of predictable match outcomes, but not the limit on new CAWs, and would introduce real issues with having to coordinate two systems for one show and hoping neither one breaks.)
Edited by Introbulus, Feb 24 2016, 04:56 PM.
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Prozach
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NOPE.
In terms of the actual show part of the show, I don't think there's anything I'd change when it comes to presentation or storylines or match quality. The actual meat of the league is still pretty top notch.

What VGCW does need though is something new to add to the formula, rather than changing the formula itself. Whether its having replay shows or bringing back an improved & streamlined version of the old VGCW Comms* episodes or something along those lines, I'm not sure. But the core aspects of VGCW's appeal haven't changed for about 3 years now, all thanks to 2K. So while a shakeup wouldn't really change anything, a new aspect of the show to go ALONGSIDE the show used to draw people in could help.

*I actually do think that with proper planning, a relaunch of the VGCW Comms could work. It would necessitate having people who know what they're doing, some consistent planning with the showrunners ahead of time, and some major tweaks from how it used to be presented (non-live would probably be best), but the core concept could work and I do think it might be worth a try.
Edited by Prozach, Feb 24 2016, 04:57 PM.
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PunkBoy
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The Sweetest Sting
Having been around for a good while, I also have trouble remembering old seasons. Recaps would be awesome. With that being said, I also love when there's continuity, so I wouldn't want references to the past go away. It's really cool to see characters evolve and grow from what happened to them.

I will also agree that the shows may be intimidating for potential new viewers. There's a ton of inside jokes and references in the community, and it can be confusing, and maybe even off-putting, for someone new. Even as someone that watched the main shows for years, I didn't follow Arena, and so BWA is really hard for me to get into. I can only imagine how frustrating it can be for someone completely unfamiliar with the concept of VGCW.

EDIT:
Comedy Answer: Vince RussTOH comes out and reboots the series.
Edited by PunkBoy, Feb 24 2016, 05:02 PM.
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Flamander
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AaronTheBaron
 
Well either that or the crazy thing of doing stories in 2K14 and doing matches in the later games.


This is a distinct possibility. An idea I've had is having a portrait for every character and using prerecording magic to make plot scenes (Maybe using CAW creator?). Seems simplistic, but it might work as a last resort.

Edited by Flamander, Feb 24 2016, 04:58 PM.
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JNT
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The boss of this gym
A combination of these:

*Yeah, I have been watching since the very start and I have to check for things that happened seasons ago to remember.This is a very long on going story and some people just don't want to get into it.The viewership decline is not exclusive to to TOH either and has been a thing for a while, the concept is stagnant.

* I guess streamer changes and channel jump were major factors, which is unfair to TOH and his crew because the show is at a really high quality point.

*But mostly it is about the game itself (2k14), as someone who has been watching all the official shows, other shows and playing the game on my own I can say that it does get boring. Really predictable stuff and there is not much variety in match types since we have done it all.

*This one is just my own suspicion: I just feel like way back then before VGCW got it's name, the major selling point for those hundreds of viewers were random rumbles and joke characters, as time went on we evolved to a show focused on story and continuity and it was also fresh and new! But just like real wrestling, that does get stagnant too.

Finally the forums decline that was mentioned before I think it is because most of us have move on to directly talk into private groups of friends, it's a lot more comfortable. And I think some people is really afraid to say what they honestly don't like about the shows in public.

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Kirbydamasta

Prozach
Feb 24 2016, 04:56 PM
In terms of the actual show part of the show, I don't think there's anything I'd change when it comes to presentation or storylines or match quality. The actual meat of the league is still pretty top notch.

What VGCW does need though is something new to add to the formula, rather than changing the formula itself. Whether its having replay shows or bringing back an improved & streamlined version of the old VGCW Comms* episodes or something along those lines, I'm not sure. But the core aspects of VGCW's appeal haven't changed for about 3 years now, all thanks to 2K. So while a shakeup wouldn't really change anything, a new aspect of the show to draw people in could help.

*I actually do think that with proper planning, a relaunch of the VGCW Comms could work. It would necessitate having people who know what they're doing, some consistent planning with the showrunners ahead of time, and some major tweaks from how it used to be presented (non-live would probably be best), but the core concept could work and I do think it might be worth a try.
This actually reminded me of some 2k13 streamer from long ago who, with a friend, actually commentated matches between video game characters while muting King and Cole. I'm not advocating for TOH to find commentators, of course, but it would be fresh, I suppose.
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Prozach
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NOPE.
JNT
Feb 24 2016, 04:58 PM
Finally the forums decline that was mentioned before I think it is because most of us have move on to directly talk into private groups of friends, it's a lot more comfortable. And I think some people is really afraid to say what they honestly don't like about the shows in public.

Yeah this is the main thing I think that drove down on-forum discussion. With new viewing groups being formed on Discord and stuff, a bunch of the discussion about the shows switched over to there. Don't think there's anything that can seriously be done about that though. Not to say that the forums are now obsolete or anything, they just aren't the go-to for a lot of people nowadays.
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