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VGCW Suggestions and Feedback; Ideas welcome!
Topic Started: Jul 29 2015, 03:07 PM (57,528 Views)
FreewayKnight
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GWA-HA-HAR!
Yeah, let's just make that perfectly clear. Nobody was being serious about six people being dead, right? That was just chat being chat. If you were taking that seriously then I dunno what to tell you.

And you kind of put yourself in a catch-22 with the whole "Bison wouldn't leave them alive" argument. Because once they do come back, you'll get upset that Bison isn't being a realistic villain. Bison, who for the previous three years has been a face.

But yeah, I haven't seen people go bananas like this since Scorpion vs. Red for the championship. Emotions are still raw but they are cooling down.
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AaronTheBaron
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Yo, it's me. It's me. It's A.T.B.
slashkamei
Mar 1 2016, 10:31 PM
I know that the ending of the title match was a touchy subject after what happened on EDBW and people don't like their main title matches being rigged like this. I would be one of them, however, I'm willing to give TOH a chance on this because he has done a VERY good job with plot and making us invested in this title match. Hell when I was in call just about EVERYONE wanted Barret to win, granted I was not one of those people but I digress, it made everyone invested in the main event and to have Bison ruin that main event was a GOLDEN move since it sets him solid as a number 1 heel, now EVERYONE is going to boo this guy and this is EXACTLY what needed to be done. Does it ruin a great match? Yes it does, but does it add more to the overall story? Yes it very much does, it will make people come back to see why Bison did what he did and his reasoning behind this.
Heck, I'm less looking at Bison's reaction and explanation of why he did it, and more looking at the reactions of Barret and Dracula. They're gonna be pissed that their epic match was interrupted unceremoniously by Bison.

Not to mention PRATS and Shadowball Valley. They're gonna be pissed as well. Shadaloo's making a lot of powerful enemies.
Edited by AaronTheBaron, Mar 1 2016, 10:34 PM.
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Rude_Semprini
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AaronTheBaron
Mar 1 2016, 10:32 PM
Not to mention PRATS and Shadowball Valley. They're gonna be pissed as well. Shadaloo's making a lot of powerful enemies.
So far the list is...

Barret, Dracula, Billy, Jimmy, Dan, Illidan, Red, Scorpion, Kefka and Vegeta, which in TURN means Nappa, Ebisumaru and Arino.

That's...that is a LOT of enemies. All made within 5 freaking episodes.
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Shoenin
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Bring in F.A.N.G
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FCD
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Rude_Semprini
Mar 1 2016, 10:39 PM
AaronTheBaron
Mar 1 2016, 10:32 PM
Not to mention PRATS and Shadowball Valley. They're gonna be pissed as well. Shadaloo's making a lot of powerful enemies.
So far the list is...

Barret, Dracula, Billy, Jimmy, Dan, Illidan, Red, Scorpion, Kefka and Vegeta, which in TURN means Nappa, Ebisumaru and Arino.

That's...that is a LOT of enemies. All made within 5 freaking episodes.
Don't forget, if you screw over Barret, you may be pissing off a good feller who have the reputation of having some pretty good piledrivers.
Edited by FCD, Mar 1 2016, 10:41 PM.
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Kirbydamasta

Rude_Semprini
Mar 1 2016, 10:39 PM
AaronTheBaron
Mar 1 2016, 10:32 PM
Not to mention PRATS and Shadowball Valley. They're gonna be pissed as well. Shadaloo's making a lot of powerful enemies.
So far the list is...

Barret, Dracula, Billy, Jimmy, Dan, Illidan, Red, Scorpion, Kefka and Vegeta, which in TURN means Nappa, Ebisumaru and Arino.

That's...that is a LOT of enemies. All made within 5 freaking episodes.
Barret also extends to Flint.

Also, Doctor Mario
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MaxOfFewTrades

Rude_Semprini
Mar 1 2016, 10:39 PM
AaronTheBaron
Mar 1 2016, 10:32 PM
Not to mention PRATS and Shadowball Valley. They're gonna be pissed as well. Shadaloo's making a lot of powerful enemies.
So far the list is...

Barret, Dracula, Billy, Jimmy, Dan, Illidan, Red, Scorpion, Kefka and Vegeta, which in TURN means Nappa, Ebisumaru and Arino.

That's...that is a LOT of enemies. All made within 5 freaking episodes.
And I have a hard time seeing Bison being able to beat anybody other then Ebisu and MAYBE Arino on in a fair fight.
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Rude_Semprini
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Well, that kinda fucking settles it, doesn't it?

I mean, shit, getting Vegeta, Scorpion AND Dracula to hate you? That's pretty bad, but Flint?

You're fucking dead, Bison. It's over. It's done. All those evil plans will be forgotten when your head is SMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASHED on the damn floor.
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MrEID
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Lapsed VGCW viewer; just started watching again this season, at the urging of a friend. Figured I'd throw my two cents in, for whatever they're worth. (Probably two cents. Go figure!)

The storyline with Barrett's last hurrah? Really well written, and it's definitely been my favourite thing about this season so far. So to see the match that I thought had been built up so well end like that? Is disappointing. Real disappointing.

But. While Barrett's achieve or leave thing has been my favourite thing about this season? The entire season has been excellent so far. So, I'm more than willing to give the dudes in charge the benefit of the doubt, you know? I'll be left in suspense for a week, but that's really not such a big deal, is it? TV shows and the like end in cliffhangers often enough.

Would I have felt this way if it were my first show? Probably not. But I also wouldn't have the same investment going in either. With everything that happened, though? Reckon I'd still be intrigued. And that's a good feeling to walk away with.
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Cran Rightia
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Director of Kitties
Clock
Mar 1 2016, 10:17 PM
Peptobislawl
Mar 1 2016, 10:12 PM
In the midst of all the talk about the match itself, I wanted to saw i am very disappointed in how John Dudebro and Cran reacted to the fans in chat. Both of them were rude to the viewers after the bison ending and as a showrunner and a nWTOH representative respectively it was upseating to see them making snide comments about the reactions in chat.
Absolutely. Awful PR.
Was I? That's certainly not the intention (and I intentionally steered away from the forum and general chat for precisely this reason). What I said in the Discord chat is probably being referenced - specifically, I said that people willing to leave over this are being obstinate. Allow me to clarify.

It can be very frustrating, as creative, for viewers to come in a decision is made - regardless of whether there is precedent or if the show or shows prior have been enjoyed - to come down on us like everything is ruined. In this case, I knew full well what was going to happen, and the reactions haven't surprised me or spurred me to action.

More generally, though, when people are willing to leak toxin at us in the moment, or over the course of a while on different matters, it comes off like our feelings, ideas, and opinions don't matter as much. This is a two-way street, and it's very easy to feel like we live a life on eggshells when there's a feel in the air that we have to always accommodate the crowd's exact idea of what should happen and not take risks for ourselves. There's been a lot of venom toward a lot of my favorites since well before I was involved in creative, and it makes the show less fun for me, just as people getting onto your ideas or favorites harms your enjoyment.

I try to reserve my teeth for specifically rude posters, which there undeniably are, but what I want everyone to understand is that we have a stake in this, too, not just as creators, but as fans of the medium same as anyone.

So, I apologize for any offense I cause with a strong choice of words, I really do. But the community needs to give us rope, too.
Edited by Cran Rightia, Mar 1 2016, 10:52 PM.
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DesuBlade
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深いダー♂ク ・ ファ♂ンタジー♂!
Shoenin
Mar 1 2016, 10:40 PM
Bring in F.A.N.G
No Shoenin. VGCW needs a true hero. Someone everyone can cheer for when he defeats the bad guys.

This guy right here.
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AaronTheBaron
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Yo, it's me. It's me. It's A.T.B.
DesuBlade
Mar 1 2016, 10:59 PM
Shoenin
Mar 1 2016, 10:40 PM
Bring in F.A.N.G
No Shoenin. VGCW needs a true hero. Someone everyone can cheer for when he defeats the bad guys.

This guy right here.
I'd mark to hear RASHIDOOOOOOO
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PunkBoy
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The Sweetest Sting
When Bison interfered in Scorpion vs. Vegeta, I said that he really needed to do something to make up for ruining what looked to be a fantastic match. And now he pretty much does the same thing, but with an even higher stakes match, and it honestly pisses me off. Not in a kayfabe way, but in a "Why is the show literally shooting itself in the foot?" kind of way.

The whole point of having interference is to set up a promise to have whatever follows up be absolutely better than what was going on, and while I do trust TOH and the team to address what happened tonight and have it lead to somewhere, I don't trust the game to work out and make sure whatever payoff happens is better. A match with Bison can turn out to be a complete dud, or even worse, the potential rematch between Barret and Dracula. While I never hated Barret, I've kind of forgotten about him, but for the past few weeks I was right back on the train. Seeing him put on the match of his life tonight was a joy, and now I'm not sure if that could ever be replicated. If he won, then it would have been an amazing feel-good moment, and even if he lost, it would have still been one of the best matches on any show of all time considering the story being told in-ring (I honestly got super emotional once Price of Freedom started), but now I just feel kind of bitter that it will never be, and there's a good chance that moment will never be reached again.

When I first said how I didn't like Bison interfering in Vegeta and Scorpion's match, I was told that since WWE does it constantly, the team felt like they could get away with it once. I thought that was fair, but now that it has happened again, I really hope this doesn't mean that the show is going to go in a direction where this is the norm. I understand wanting to push plot and the development of a character, but there has to be some kind of middle ground. Like Prozach said earlier, the fans will buy into a storyline if they're genuinely invested in it. If Barret lost, have the Bison cut in happen during a tearful goodbye. If he won, then during the triumphant celebration. The viewers would still absolutely pour heat onto Bison for "ruining the moment" without having to touch the match at all. Granted, there's a lot more genuine emotion with what happened, but I'm not sure if it was worth it. Like with any kind of show, wrestling or not, it's not fun to leave disappointed.

With all of that being said, I understand that I'm only one subsection of the fanbase. Others are fine with this and believe this a way for Bison to get nuclear heat, and that's great (I don't mean that dismissively at all). I just hope that this Great Game works, and allows TOH and the team to achieve what they're building towards.

If there's one absolute positive that came out of tonight that everyone can agree on, is that tonight proved without a shadow of a doubt that people are still passionate about VGCW. Whatever people think about tonight, they're talking about it, and that passion is why I became so invested in the show in the first place, and it is going to be the key for the future to come. What we need to do now as a community, from viewers to team members to show runners, is to channel that passion into a positive driving force, and show potential new viewers that this isn't just a by-the-numbers weekly stream, but something worth getting invested into. And while everyone may not agree with everything, we can all still come together as a community and enjoy this crazy show together.
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Triple Factorial
Jobber
FreewayKnight
Mar 1 2016, 10:31 PM
Yeah, let's just make that perfectly clear. Nobody was being serious about six people being dead, right?

Unfortunately, I was in fact honestly believing that they're legit dead.

MaxOfFewTrades
Mar 1 2016, 10:23 PM
To the guy who thinks Red, Illidan, Billy, Jimmy, and Dan are all dead.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Yeah okay, kill off some of the best workers in the company for no reason whatsoever. Nobody is that bad of a writer. Specially not the creative on this show.

I literally came back just to respond to this. I honestly thought how good a worker someone is doesn't matter to Bison; only strength. Basically, everyone but Shadaloo members are eligible for death. Good workers, major draws, even reigning champions or people in other feuds could be killed off if it meant advancing the main bad guy's heat. And with everyone calling them dead so damn much and how I have a bad reputation for taking the D word to heart, I put 2 and 2 together and got legit deaths. Taking out the doctor backstage really added apparent intention to kill, as well.

I really wouldn't have put it past VGCW Creative to toss out a few big names to shove the main heel of the season as hot as they could, but now it feels like it can't possibly get any hotter (does such a thing even exist IRL?) and had broke me.

That said it'll somehow get even hotter as we get Bison with the VGCW belt around his waist and his cronies with the Co-Op titles.
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Cran Rightia
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Director of Kitties
I'm gonna avoid giving any plot details, but I feel like I should assure everyone that legitimate death wouldn't get overshadowed by more matches.
Edited by Cran Rightia, Mar 1 2016, 11:58 PM.
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