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VGCW Suggestions and Feedback; Ideas welcome!
Topic Started: Jul 29 2015, 03:07 PM (57,514 Views)
Justin_Brett

While they're both undoubtedly getting cut I hope that isn't all the send-off Goemon and Guile get, since even if they did diminish to where that was necessary it didn't feel entirely respectful the way Wario's was. It didn't exactly feel like a big moment, either, which you'd want one of the main villains seemingly killing two wrestlers to be. Compare Gray Fox standing up to Nightmare Gabe - it made him look like a hero, gave him something to go out on, and it was the ending of that episode. This just made it look like they were two shmucks who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Soundwave
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Prozach
Jun 14 2016, 10:27 PM
Soundwave
Jun 14 2016, 10:15 PM
Don't agree with Prozach's point on Sho. For me it's the opposite. Sho went from being a nobody EDBW graduate to one of my favourites just by how he's been written. It's unique and makes him stand out. I don't really know what Prozach wants. He's a guy who talks with lots of math lingo, that's his thing. Nearly everybody has a thing. Nappa is all caps guy, Arino is token Japanese cliche guy. Ebisumaru is creepy <3 guy.

Like he praises the court and people like Dracula and Flint, but I don't see how what Sho is presenting is any different. Look at some of his dialogue with Reyn. If you can't look past the fact he does lots of math talking I guess it seems like nonsense, but he is an actual human saying actual things.
Again, look to the difference between Sho's promo in EDBW and how Sho's written here. In that promo, his point is that he's talking about the title match with Liquid, and using the math stuff to illustrate a point. Here, he's just using math stuff in everyday conversation.

I get he's "math guy" but what else is there? So far all I've picked up is that he's kinda an asshole and uses math terminology. For someone who had multiple vignettes made to get people excited, I'm really let down by the lack of actual "stuff" that he's saying or doing.
Using math stuff in everyday conversation is actually more faithful to the game he's from.

I get the impression Cran or TOH or somebody on the team is a huge fan of him. After losing his debut match they seem to have settled down big time, which I believe has benefited him. Being given special treatment is how you get people to dislike you. See: Roman Reigns, M. Bison. I won't ask you to ignore the vignettes, but the writing team have definitely taken his importance down a notch. The fact he hasn't had much actual stuff to be doing is a result of this.

Nobody in VGCW is super three dimensional and that's just an unfortunate part of the medium. You're not gonna get to fully figure out a character (especially a new one) from a couple of one minute plot segments. People like Dracula who are getting the big plot segments obviously due to their important role at the moment are the ones who are really shining. The EDBW segment you talked about was another example. He's given something to strive for and a tangible goal. When you're not in the title picture there's only so much you can say that has any relevance to you and your character right now.
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Prozach
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NOPE.
See, I can't really go along with that, because we've had more fleshed out characters in sideplots before. Case in point: Layton's feud-thing with Sabin. Sure he was "puzzle guy", but behind that he was also showing he had extremely dark intentions behind how he was using his intellect, and it made him into a really interesting and creepy character. So I feel like saying he can't be complex because he isn't involved enough to show his character is kinda a cop-out answer.

That being said, Armstrong and Falcon are definitely the more egregious cases, because with them it's an issue of me just not liking how they're portrayed rather than wanting more substance from them. Sho can easily be redeemed with more attention, but Armstrong and Falcon just need an overhaul.

MaxOfFewTrades
 
Dude, tons of characters I like that are being portrayed in ways I dislike across EVERY show in the series.

You just have to deal with it.


Once again, it's not the fact that they're not the right character. I can live with out of character stuff. It's the Flanderizing of Armstrong and Falcon's core pieces of their character that's the issue.

But anyway, the writing for these characters is only one small part. It's not the only thing.
Edited by Prozach, Jun 14 2016, 10:57 PM.
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MaxOfFewTrades

Prozach
Jun 14 2016, 10:47 PM
That being said, Armstrong and Falcon are definitely the more egregious cases, because with them it's an issue of me just not liking how they're portrayed rather than wanting more substance from them. Sho can easily be redeemed with more attention, but Armstrong and Falcon just need an overhaul.
Dude, tons of characters I like that are being portrayed in ways I dislike across EVERY show in the series.

You just have to deal with it.
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KoopaLandInc
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MaxOfFewTrades
Jun 14 2016, 10:51 PM
Prozach
Jun 14 2016, 10:47 PM
That being said, Armstrong and Falcon are definitely the more egregious cases, because with them it's an issue of me just not liking how they're portrayed rather than wanting more substance from them. Sho can easily be redeemed with more attention, but Armstrong and Falcon just need an overhaul.
Dude, tons of characters I like that are being portrayed in ways I dislike across EVERY show in the series.

You just have to deal with it.
Or and you can speak up about it and maybe it'll be addressed.
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MaxOfFewTrades

KoopaLandInc
Jun 14 2016, 10:53 PM
MaxOfFewTrades
Jun 14 2016, 10:51 PM
Prozach
Jun 14 2016, 10:47 PM
That being said, Armstrong and Falcon are definitely the more egregious cases, because with them it's an issue of me just not liking how they're portrayed rather than wanting more substance from them. Sho can easily be redeemed with more attention, but Armstrong and Falcon just need an overhaul.
Dude, tons of characters I like that are being portrayed in ways I dislike across EVERY show in the series.

You just have to deal with it.
Or and you can speak up about it and maybe it'll be addressed.
I've tried. Any of my grievances are shot completely down and I'm literately told to just accept that fact, so despite it, I'm trying to do just that.
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FreewayKnight
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GWA-HA-HAR!
I know you that when you guys bring up this criticism, you aren't actually trying to say that the show should be cancelled. But my paranoid mind can't help but wonder 'what if it does get cancelled because of all this?'
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Soundwave
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FreewayKnight
Jun 14 2016, 10:56 PM
I know you that when you guys bring up this criticism, you aren't actually trying to say that the show should be cancelled. But my paranoid mind can't help but wonder 'what if it does get cancelled because of all this?'
TOH and the gang aren't babies. They made this thread to ask for constructive criticism, they're not gonna quit when they get it.

Besides, I made a complaint about the booking of a match. I, as well as many others are generally very happy with VGCW. It's a highlight of the week for sure.

VGCW isn't getting cancelled if I have to fucking run the show myself.
Edited by Soundwave, Jun 14 2016, 11:05 PM.
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DongyKonga
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Sounds Like A Bodacious Time
Soundwave
Jun 14 2016, 11:03 PM
VGCW isn't getting cancelled if I have to fucking run the show myself.
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MacScrewedMac
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Guile did nothing wrong
I'll echo the whole poor booking thing. Even though a lot of people have already made up their minds of Guile, his booking has been really bad since Bazza left. His plot is pretty much him just being a massive angry manchild compared to the cold and calculating dude he used to be (Especially that DK scene). His 50/50 record was entirely his own fault at first, but then he had that first blood match with Illidan where, after a bullshit loss, he was booked in like 3 multi-mans in a row and is now possibly dead.
Edited by MacScrewedMac, Jun 14 2016, 11:14 PM.
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E-Tap
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It seems "OK" to battle you.
I'm not as savvy on booking matters as some of the other well-traveled wrestle watchers here, but it feels like these concerns can also be raised for what's going on with Ganon and the Briefcase recently. The whole jaunt with the Rogues and the Briefcase seemed like it might be fun at first but I'm feeling some buyer's remorse with it. I mean, I guess it felt like at first Ganon got the thing because the game fucked up, so there was this underlying tone of "aha fucker you gotta earn it, hold that" when it started. However, it's sort of stalled lately, and has felt super unfair to him with other things coming into play even though welp, technically, he did already earn it, so what's the deal?

It didn't quite feel as apparent though until this whole Edgelord/Edgeworth thing started. Truthfully, losing to Edgeworth I don't feel is a problem here. I mean nbd, others have, right? Then we kinda expected Ganon to destroy the Rogues for fucking with his shit, only to be mini-swerved with him "playing along", then the whole Triforce fuckery added on top of this it makes it seem like he's not even fit to cash in. This would be one thing except it's just completely making Ganondorf's win moot, not to mention completely removing the Briefcase as a dramatic factor for the aftermatch of Dracula's and Phoenix's match. This is at a time when Ganon really should be hanging this over Dracula's head to keep him on his toes, in a season where Dracula's had jack shit to do.

I'm worried this is just going to hurt Ganon similar to how Duke blocking Nappa's attempted cash-in and stalling it the fuck out had people think he held on to it for too long for no good reason, and unjustifiably so. Difference here, is Nappa attempted a complete bullshit cash-in attempt which was more for story, and poor Ganon hasn't even had a chance to do things right or at all before what he earned was taken from him.

It's kind of weird to think about Ganon being treated unfairly, but it's sort of feeling like that's the case, and several other members of the locker room have done much worse shit than he has this season with far less backlash.
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GirthIgnorer
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Prozach made some good points, but I think overall the show's still been great. I know I've hammered a bunch on the fallacy of trusting matches to reflect plot but it was a bold direction for the season, it was a cool experiment that didn't work out so hot, and I'm confident we've all said it enough that it won't be replicated in the next season. Cutscene editing has been great, arenas have been great, and when matches actually go along with the plot it's been awesome.

One minor point I do want to emphasize from the post though is the lack of title matches being dolled out. Everyone's really passionate about their favorite guys and wants to see them get a run with the title, or at the very least, a shot at the title. If the point of not dolling them out so much is to make them feel more important, well, I think that's a valid take. But the premise of VGCW is inherently wacky and no one should feel too salty and complain about WCW booking when a guy drops a belt in a three weeks on his first defense.

The Rumble stipulation of a guaranteed next match at Endgame was a hype-as-fuck idea at the time and I was 100% all about it, but as a guy who doesn't really care about Phoenix or Guybrush my hype is kinda sitting in limbo until next season. If we did title shots more often, fans of those guys get to see their guys in title matches and others get to look on the horizon for what's next.

I'd honestly be cool with the Casual title being defended every week. Would be cool to differentiate between the two belts and would make more people happy 'cause they'd get to see their favorites win something. Even if it makes PPV Casual title matches less meaningful, I think it's better for the show overall.

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Soundwave
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I'd definitely like to see the Casual title defended more often. Red became a fucking made man and a superstar from his Casual reign. I mean Wily is currently being made too, but I feel the hype is kinda just floating as we wait the 2-3 months for his next title defence (though that Scorpion match really helped him so that was lucky)
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PlasticAutomaton
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So, I'm gonna chip in a few cents, because I'm still very much enjoying the show, and I think a lot of the negativity this season has come down to the Shadaloo mess, which was a great experiment in theory, but a combination of factors has resulted in a massive clusterfuck that is going to be hard to entangle. So, here's an effort post on this. I'll talk about the rest of the show, namely why I think people are being overly negative about it later.

On Shadaloo
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Hexagon Heat
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-As stated before, there should be less time between title defenses. Dracula has held the title for seven months and has defended it against two wrestlers.

-Also as stated before, natural storylines have worked so much better than the (more or less) predetermined ones. Vegeta as king works really well, and I'm not even a big fan of the guy.

-I dislike Flint retroactively becoming a bad father. It feels like the years he spent as a face have been sullied for this heel turn.

-Tag team feuds unrelated to the titles should exist! The Fuckheads, The BLU Rogues, Sonic Truffle, and FF3&K all rule and should be given more screen time.

-I hate Shadow Ball Valley! They totally feel like one of EDBW's random thing picker teams that ended up not working out. Them being the champs is like if Snake and Geno won the tag titles shortly after beating the Dracpack.

-It be nice if my favorites weren't jobbers/dead.
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