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VGCW Suggestions and Feedback; Ideas welcome!
Topic Started: Jul 29 2015, 03:07 PM (57,513 Views)
Potatosaurusrex
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I echo most of the above criticisms, especially with point drawn to Shadaloo. Additionally, as stated before in Discord but reiterated here, please, the booking this season has followed an alarmingly frequent pattern of "Somebody who won their last match fights somebody who lost their last match" and it feels that more often than not it equates to the loser winning and transferring a one win momentum push to another competitor who promptly goes around and does the same thing on an infinite cycle. Now, of course this isn't 100% of the time, and yes you can say "Well the game decides the results so it's the game's fault!", but if the matches weren't booked in that fashion in the first place it wouldn't happen in the first place. It's just a situation that sets up a large potential for stagnation, and that's no good. It's probably not something that was intended to be booked in that fashion, but it has been a central issue with this season and I wanted to draw it to attention.

Now with that out of the way, I would like to say that because momentum has been a huge issue this season, one of my favorite things as of yet is the Beat the Clock Challenges for the Co-Op Contenders. The alternative to this idea I believe would've been akin to a tournament, maybe not all in one night but let's assume it was a tournament in terms of "8 teams have tag team matches together and the winners move on progressively." This is the traditional format for contender's, and it's not bad, it works. It's not a tag thing, either: Booking winners against winners is how you build momentum enough to actually consider that, hey, this wrestler's pretty good, he's winning a lot, push him to contend for the belt. Same applies to tag teams. Look at the adjective: Momentum. Reference aside, you get the point.

The special thing I find about this method of contender finding is this: Whereas the normal tournament style of booking features one entity with three wins (assuming eight competitors) coming out to fight the champion, this one features one entity with two wins (not as much, but still a relatively good amount of momentum), but also two other entities with a win under the belt, too. This means that the contender can go to End Game and fight for the title, but in the meantime, we've got two teams coming off a win that can be built for next season's contendership. It's a good way to keep the amount of time needed to gather contenders shortened while also giving the opportunity for two teams to take some momentum away from this, even if they don't go for the big one. That's pretty great, in my honest opinion.

I cannot stress enough that I absolutely love the idea. It's an excellent way to help alleviate some of the issues of the season's booking, and I just really, really like it and wanted to put it to paper. Beyond that, other stuff from the episode, Haggar and Heavy being buddies is a good development and I hope it stays that (not that Heavy and Haggar are only ever seen together in future) because I like that the story line somewhat carries together, and it's a break from the issues mentioned in the Daily Discussion thread about him.

Gief has really been pulling his shit together lately in my eyes. He took a loss to Demoman and was knocked out of a fatal fourway, but he also took out a strong-looking Asura and put on a MOTN (in my opinion) with Haggar at the PPV. I really hope he gets something for his success.

It got up earlier in the thread and while I agree that Falcon and Armstrong suffer heavily from issues in their writing, Sho has actually gotten a lot better. His original writing felt like a middle schooler was sifting through a high school algebra book and throwing in the random bolded vocab words he found into a casual conversation while he crossed his fingers behind his back hoping that nobody would call him out on being full of shit. However, in the past two or three plotscenes he's been in, his math vocabulary has been used to enhance the points he is trying to make in dialogue, and I really like that. His writing went from my least favorite in VGCW to pretty damn good, and it was nice to see that improvement after I brought the issue up with TOH a while back. In its simplest form, Sho went from shoehorning math words into his conversations to actually using them to make good points and enhance what he was saying. Excellent sign of improvement.

I think that's all I had to say from last night's show.
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MaxOfFewTrades

I'll just say what I always say. "Let's the game write the story!"

We should be following stories like Wily and Vegeta exclusively right now, and as other characters gain momentum, they should ether get involved in the current stories, or start their own as rewards for winning.

Setting out to make a character be something is just never a guarantee, so you should just always work with what the show is giving you rather then try and make it do what you want.

I mean, Wily went from one of the biggest losers on the show to going on a winning streak and grabbing a belt, we should be seeing what he's doing with this status that he's never had before.
Edited by MaxOfFewTrades, Jun 16 2016, 04:09 AM.
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Mosaique
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>dirtsheets
Zangief needs Catch F-5 as finisher.

He needs to protect the Russian skies.
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Hexagon Heat
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Hexagon Heat
Jun 15 2016, 06:33 AM
-Also as stated before, natural storylines have worked so much better than the (more or less) predetermined ones. Vegeta as king works really well, and I'm not even a big fan of the guy.
Thinking about it, the GameShark plotline didn't occur naturally and it was awesome so :idunno:


Something else that has bugged me is how Travis being in a (kinda non-existent) storyline has done him more harm than good. He's been snubbed from Casual contenders, Co-Op contenders, two Royal Rumbles, and the MitB qualifiers (which included Zubaz and Kefka).
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Kingault
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Hexagon Heat
Jun 16 2016, 03:20 PM
Hexagon Heat
Jun 15 2016, 06:33 AM
-Also as stated before, natural storylines have worked so much better than the (more or less) predetermined ones. Vegeta as king works really well, and I'm not even a big fan of the guy.
Thinking about it, the GameShark plotline didn't occur naturally and it was awesome so :idunno:


Something else that has bugged me is how Travis being in a (kinda non-existent) storyline has done him more harm than good. He's been snubbed from Casual contenders, Co-Op contenders, two Royal Rumbles, and the MitB qualifiers (which included Zubaz and Kefka).
Well, it's not like the Gameshark formed a stable to repeatedly beat people in plot, in the physical sense, at least.


And yeah, good point on Travis. I haven't really thought much about that other than "His storyline's really not getting enough scenes."
Also, I'm going to echo the statements about Armstrong and Guile's writing having gone downhill since Bazza's era. It's not that I don't like their VGCW characterization, which I do. I just feel that Armstrong's been flanderized into swearing every sentence or two and Guile being less "calculating asshole"(think Ring Rangers) and more "asshole manchild", but eh those are lesser concerns for me.
Apart from other stuff mentioned here, the biggest one for me is title defenses only being at PPVs. Sure, it makes the belts more important, but I feel it causes too much stagnation. I'd like to see at least the Casual belt get defended every few episodes.


Keep up the great work, TOH and co.
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Prozach
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NOPE.
Yeah, I forgot to mention these guys earlier in my "these people are your stars but you're not using them" list, but Travis and especially Zangief have been stellar in everything they do, but the things they're involved in handicaps their potential. The payoff for Travis being a mercenary-thing has been reeeeeeeeeeeeally slow and has just left him stuck in limbo when there's SO MUCH he can do, and Gief has never been more popular and well liked. Not in an ironic sense either, but in a "I want to see this guy more involved in things" sense. I really want to see them get a proper bonus for being so good for an extended period of time, but they're just not getting it because so much attention has been used in trying to salvage Shadaloo.

Like, Gief is getting plot and that's good, but it seems like he's being used to build up Mika more than anything, when he himself has actually been great in his own right. I don't want his own accomplishments to be overshadowed by Mika just because she's there.
Edited by Prozach, Jun 16 2016, 03:38 PM.
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Rude_Semprini
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It's not as if Mika isn't perfectly capable of getting herself over in her own show, anyway.
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NottyRose
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A rose, by any other name...
Rude_Semprini
Jun 16 2016, 04:33 PM
It's not as if Mika isn't perfectly capable of getting herself over in her own show, anyway.
You know, speaking as one of Mika's biggest fans and the guy on WV who pushed for this angle, I've gotta say, I'm feeling pretty disheartened by the rigidness of people on this.

Like, I knew that there would be some difficulties maneuvering around both schedules, but I'd really hoped people would accept a little wonkiness in exchange for something different, for a change.

Lesson learned, I guess. We'll keep things dialed back in the future.
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Justin_Brett

MaxOfFewTrades
Jun 16 2016, 04:07 AM
We should be following stories like Wily and Vegeta exclusively right now, and as other characters gain momentum, they should ether get involved in the current stories, or start their own as rewards for winning..
That's what was happening with Shadoloo, though? With the exception of Falcon all of their members are people who had maintained momentum for a while. It's not like say, Reyn wouldn't be just as likely to start losing if he became a member of a bad guy group after winning a bunch.
Edited by Justin_Brett, Jun 16 2016, 04:55 PM.
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Karthulu
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Yeah, I'm a fan.
NottyRose
Jun 16 2016, 04:51 PM
Rude_Semprini
Jun 16 2016, 04:33 PM
It's not as if Mika isn't perfectly capable of getting herself over in her own show, anyway.
You know, speaking as one of Mika's biggest fans and the guy on WV who pushed for this angle, I've gotta say, I'm feeling pretty disheartened by the rigidness of people on this.

Like, I knew that there would be some difficulties maneuvering around both schedules, but I'd really hoped people would accept a little wonkiness in exchange for something different, for a change.

Lesson learned, I guess. We'll keep things dialed back in the future.
Mika is cool guest starring on VGCW.

Mika is not cool ending the Iron Curtain Streak.
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Rude_Semprini
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Hey, I make one damn sentence and I get quoted? All I want is Gief and Mika to be over in their respective shows, what the hell did I do?
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Soundwave
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Yes, more title defences please.

The VGCW title was defended 4 times last season, which I think was a good number. So far this season it's been defended twice, with a 3rd defence set for Endgame. One of these defences was COMPLETELY thrown out for the sake of plot. We've talked at length about why Blood Money's ending was a mistake so we won't go further into that but instead of an immediate rematch it got dragged out, basically robbing us of an extra championship match.

3 defences this season, which isn't enough. The fact one of them is null and void and meant nothing makes it worse.

I know you might be afraid about the prestige of the title if you have frequent title matches and title changes, but a lengthy title reign means nothing if you're hardly defending it. See: Dean Ambrose, United States Champion.

I will say I think The Dragon's Co-Op reign was booked perfectly though. As they became more and more dominant their defences started ramping up. Be sure to do the same with Wily and Drac!
Edited by Soundwave, Jun 16 2016, 05:02 PM.
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Potatosaurusrex
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Karthulu
Jun 16 2016, 04:54 PM
NottyRose
Jun 16 2016, 04:51 PM
Rude_Semprini
Jun 16 2016, 04:33 PM
It's not as if Mika isn't perfectly capable of getting herself over in her own show, anyway.
You know, speaking as one of Mika's biggest fans and the guy on WV who pushed for this angle, I've gotta say, I'm feeling pretty disheartened by the rigidness of people on this.

Like, I knew that there would be some difficulties maneuvering around both schedules, but I'd really hoped people would accept a little wonkiness in exchange for something different, for a change.

Lesson learned, I guess. We'll keep things dialed back in the future.
Mika is cool guest starring on VGCW.

Mika is not cool ending the Iron Curtain Streak.
Basically this. I ponder if it's not too late to deviate the course planned and instead of risking Gief's streak to someone who won't benefit from it as much due to the difference in rosters, we could book Gief in a big match for the curtain jerk and put Mika in his corner or something similar. It would allow the two to be involved in their own match and would provide equal if not better character development depending on how it's written. This is all just a what-if/suggestion, of course.
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Kingault
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Yeah, I'm fine with R. Mika appearing regularly with Zangief, but I wish she'd wrestle more often on her own show. I get that WVGCW is less frequent than VGCW and there's a lot of other wrestlers, but it feels that she's not appearing often enough for a heavily anticipated call-up.

(I'd also be fine with R.Mika vs Zangief for Endgame 12 to break the streak because that'd be an excellent first male vs. female match, but yeah she wouldn't really benefit from it... Though maybe such a thing could lead to more crossover matches or lead to future plot for her in WVGCW regarding it? Or just have Mika in a corner or something,)
Edited by Kingault, Jun 16 2016, 06:36 PM.
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Kirbydamasta

Potatosaurusrex
Jun 16 2016, 05:21 PM
Karthulu
Jun 16 2016, 04:54 PM
NottyRose
Jun 16 2016, 04:51 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Mika is cool guest starring on VGCW.

Mika is not cool ending the Iron Curtain Streak.
Basically this. I ponder if it's not too late to deviate the course planned and instead of risking Gief's streak to someone who won't benefit from it as much due to the difference in rosters, we could book Gief in a big match for the curtain jerk and put Mika in his corner or something similar. It would allow the two to be involved in their own match and would provide equal if not better character development depending on how it's written. This is all just a what-if/suggestion, of course.
Seconding this.

While I doubt plans will change, I'm hoping that Mika/Gief doesn't happen for all these reasons.

In addition, we might only get one or two more intergender matches due to the death of the servers. I doubt TOH has too many more female CAWs on his console, and likewise to Bryn. I don't want to see Gief get cucked out of the best thing he's had going for him in a loong time for a novelty match and for someone who couldn't really do anything with the rub.
Edited by Kirbydamasta, Jun 16 2016, 06:12 PM.
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