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VGCW Suggestions and Feedback; Ideas welcome!
Topic Started: Jul 29 2015, 03:07 PM (57,505 Views)
Justin_Brett

Like what? This keeps getting said but I dunno what exactly you want creative to do, they already had to rewrite a large part of the season.
Edited by Justin_Brett, Aug 3 2016, 10:55 PM.
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Weldar
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That's just it though, they did this time and it works. The simple act of portryaing Bison as getting desperate due to his failures made a big difference. The Blood Falcon army could have been part of creative's plan from day 1 for all we know but reframing it in that way to fit the context helped it be a lot better received.

Or say with the robot master season (I wasn't actually watching then so I'm just going off what I've read here), what if due to the success of the robots Wily and Eggman had actually taken over towards the end. You could robotize a few more people, maybe book some robot vs robot matches and explain away not the whole roster being robots as they're slowly working their way through the roster. You could still have the same finale with the unleashing of Nightmare Gabe but have it be more of a last stand against complete takeover.

I do agree that I think having planned overarching plot is a good thing. I think its even fine to have a set plan for where its going to end up, just also leave room to have multiple paths for how to get there so you can adapt to the situation.
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pyrrhickong
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Alright, just had a stretch of time to look nicely at End Game. Here are my general thoughts:

-Wily is a fucking treasure. Give this man two more castles and a mojito.

-Overall, I felt that this season had lofty ambitions that were never quite realized. Having to create a new arena for each individual show, plus book a hometown match, add editing, tie certain areas into plotlines, pace the PPV's to be in specific locations... it all seemed, at least from an outside perspective, like a cute idea that was more fully realized in the first three episodes of the season and then kinda fell off the rails. This season also saw the resolution of Barret's career, Flint's heel turn, the resolution of the Birds of Prey and Captain Falcon's career, Blood Falcon needing multiple segments, Bison getting presence pretty much each show, Zangief getting a segment at least every other show, Vegeta getting a segment every other show, the Dragons gauntlet, and later Ganondorf's... whatever with the briefcase. All of these factors kind of just fell inwards on one another for the later half of the season - felt like the floor was being made while the show inched forward, or that the foundation was shaky and potholes were constantly being fallen into.

-A lot of plans resting on the shoulders of certain wrestlers. People point to Bison and Blood Falcon as the big offenders, but it's also damaged Sho's credibility giving him a plot-related entrance and him not performing up to snuff.

-I think you guys know this, but you just seemed overwhelmed and hoping for big payoffs at key points to really go your way... and those not really going anywhere. In the future, having a villain is absolutely fine, but protect them a bit more. Dracula was the most protected villain through Season 4, and he worked exceptionally well due to it - the LMS with Mac was a fresh match. Bison... wasn't a villain you could do this with, since his body of work was consistently 'good', but not necessarily consistently 'guaranteed winning', and the TOH era has seen the rise and fall of many classics (Dante and Wily being the most glaring examples, with Bowser, Kanji, Arino, Waluigi, and Knuckles all saying hi, too). If you need a monster, play with something like Kefka's Season 5 gauntlet. If not abused, I don't think we minded that God Kefka's opponents came in injured - it made it all the more amazing when Flint stood up to him that time. I'm of the opinion that making a match harder for a guy to win is indefinitely better than plot rigging.

-Honestly? I'd let the newcomers breathe before getting made to be in a plotline. Quickly elevated into plot superstars include Kefka, Gray Fox, Asura, and now Raiden. I understand that Edgeworth and Armstrong were, as well, but Armstrong happened to work out exceptionally well, and Edgeworth also was swiftly given matches. In addition, both plot-important positions made sense for both men, and weren't pivotal to anything wrestling-wise. Fox and Asura needed wins at key points and didn't get them. Kefka was SUPER protected for Seasons 4 and 5 so that his End Game appearance could be even larger and greater. Raiden... has a pretty obvious path, but he's gonna get a ton of focus before getting a chance to win a lot of people over just with in-ring talent because of being embroiled with Vegeta. It makes for an inorganic storyline that CAN work, but the trigger should be told at a time that's natural, as opposed to when it would make sense from a narrative and pacing standpoint of "okay it's been enough time we want a robot raiden now". I know that can't always be the case but... yeah, it's rough, buddy.

-Not a fan of Falcon dying. Nice he got a win on his way out, but now we lose a personality and things are just really grim. He served a purpose essentially to just totally die. The fact that he spoke during his recovery scene also made it pretty obvious he was gonna come back for the specific suicide spot. No real conclusion to Falcon's arc as a wrestler, just a conclusion to a plotline that he happened to be a part of that removed him for a season and then he died.

-LOVED the inter-champion promos tonight. Very solid, established great levels of motivation, built on previous conversations to make each fight really come to an actual head.

-Love the creativity for Main Events all through the season, always fun to watch those and always great to look forward to them. Things like the Baby Park match still put a smile on my face, I still tell friends to go see it even if they don't know about VGCW. Match creativity with as limited format as you guys have has been absolutely spot-on. Except for endgame, but it worked since it was a lot of feuds coming to a head.

-Armstrong didn't swear a lot this time! Thanks!

-Dracula's writing was fantastic all season. Perfect tweener champ to carry the league, combining holier-than-thou insults with a gentleman's swagger and the chance to listen to his opponents before dismissing them. He was a charismatic champion, something we haven't had in quite a while, and he fulfilled the role fabulously. Commanding attention to the mic was as damn good a factor as his matches for calling his reign one of the all-time greats for me.


I leave this season feeling mixed, but hopeful. It very much felt like a growing pains season, trying to expand from a very successful Season 11 following in the footsteps of Bazza and trying to find an identity with an overarching storyline, capitalizing on both wrestler popularity and a hot new idea. I think the weight of everything made it be pushed too far, and while I worry that Sons of the Patriots is more of the same in that regard with eyes in every corner and a unified villain for all shows, they're enough of a shadow organization and The Boss has been played up for THE MISSION for so damn long that I'm willing to read them as a group staying in the back for at least a while longer, and spreading through multiple programs allows them a LOT more room to breathe and heel it up at the right times.

Thank you guys for doing this. I don't wanna seem super negative, as I really enjoy the product and do want to see more. Just my own reflections as I look back. But right now, we've got Phoenix fulfilling a years-long dream, Ganondorf able to cash in at any time and angered enough to actually do it, the most fun casual champ we've had since Dan Vs Knuckles Vs Dan Vs Knuckles, a super healthy tag division, and roster slots freeing up so we can get hype for potential newcomers. I feel good, I feel that good things will happen. Thank you guys for this entertainment. Truly.
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Introbulus
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I'd like to take a moment to reflect on something personal: Phoenix Wright was the first VGCW Wrestler I ever saw, back when he first fought the Mysterious Mr. L. He's a major figure in the history of the company's lore, but he's also my introduction to VGCW as a whole, so it's a real treat to finally see him as champion.

----------

As for actual feedback, I do like the idea of keeping some plot segments from being too focused on an immediate payoff - one huge reason Bison's plot segments felt off was because his results in-ring did not match the level of threat we were expected to believe he represented. This is the same problem, but in the opposite direction, that Season 8 had.

That being said, both times this happened the resolution came in a similar way - Season 8 saw Gabe 'fire' Protoman from his 'job' of fighting robot masters (an absolute golden highlight of that season) and in this season, everything started coking together as Bison got more and more desperate to appease his shadow boss, culminating in the unleashing of 1000 Blood Falcon Clones.

And strangely, I don't think there's any better way to handle situations like this. You give a plot some time to see if it's panning out, and adjust the script if it doesn't to account for show shenanigans. You could do as was done with Drac and protect him with a stable (nobody seemed to mind Dan constantly losing during Wrestlvania, but he WAS a joke back then...) but I think overall, just reacting to how things come out is the best anyone can do.

I am pretty satisfied with how this season ended. I kinda wish Falcon was still around, and I think that some of the side plots were a little lackluster (Sho and Zangief in particular, but I'm giving Ganon and Edgy another few matches since theirs aren't quite resolved yet) but overall, I'm happy, and looking forward to season 13.
Edited by Introbulus, Aug 4 2016, 08:59 AM.
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slashkamei
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Learning to make a good caw since 2k13
I really hope you keep pulling off those Swerve newcomers like you did with Raiden, that was still amazing and I do hope to see more
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Rude_Semprini
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Have we considered the very real possibility of giving all of Armstrong's minions ridiculous MGS-style codenames in a particular theme?

Sho can be "MULTIPICATION BADGER"! Flint is "DEICIDE RATTLESNAKE"! Asura is "SCREAMING GUY"!
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Bandit
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I'd like to suggest to bring back Dr. Eggman for the next season, Robutnik showed his shtick by now and i prefered Eggman to come back.

Since both character were the talk of the day in the thread i and others made their points on the characters and why one is better then the other

http://forum.vgcw.net/topic/11213821/372/ it starts at the very bottom.

I'd really, really want Dr.Eggman back.
Edited by Bandit, Aug 7 2016, 12:38 PM.
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MaxOfFewTrades

I miss Eggman as well, unless you guys have something planned that ONLY Robotnik can do, please give us the Masterplan.
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OrgaFlow
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Thirding that. I honestly expected Wily trying to turn his slightly racist partner back into his old, nagging self after getting his belt stolen.
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slashkamei
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Learning to make a good caw since 2k13
I'm not sure if someone already brought this issue up, but could you maybe have your Tag Team Champions show up more in singles or even tag matches? I know we NEVER got to see Red or Illidan's Singles champ entrances since winning the belt, they only showed up in plot, which is fine and all, though I'd like our champions to have more matches in between title defenses is all.
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OrgaFlow
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slashkamei
Aug 8 2016, 10:28 AM
I'm not sure if someone already brought this issue up, but could you maybe have your Tag Team Champions show up more in singles or even tag matches? I know we NEVER got to see Red or Illidan's Singles champ entrances since winning the belt, they only showed up in plot, which is fine and all, though I'd like our champions to have more matches in between title defenses is all.
If there is one thing I liked about Scoprions reign, it was him still appearing to the occasional match. Of course, sending your champ out like that can backfire quite a bit (Scorpion vs. Phoenix comes to mind), but I think that would help alleviating the issues with champs sitting idly by until a new challenger approaches.
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JCW555
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The Archives Guy
OrgaFlow
Aug 8 2016, 11:51 AM
slashkamei
Aug 8 2016, 10:28 AM
I'm not sure if someone already brought this issue up, but could you maybe have your Tag Team Champions show up more in singles or even tag matches? I know we NEVER got to see Red or Illidan's Singles champ entrances since winning the belt, they only showed up in plot, which is fine and all, though I'd like our champions to have more matches in between title defenses is all.
If there is one thing I liked about Scoprions reign, it was him still appearing to the occasional match. Of course, sending your champ out like that can backfire quite a bit (Scorpion vs. Phoenix comes to mind), but I think that would help alleviating the issues with champs sitting idly by until a new challenger approaches.
Or just more defenses in general.
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Captain Rodriguez
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"Individual members of the challenger/champion teams fight each other in singles" is tag team feud building 101. And it doesn't matter if someone doesn't "look strong", since at the end of the day it's about how well you function as a unit, not as a singles wrestler. Obviously this shouldn't be done for every feud since it would get formulaic, but it's something to consider to give the tag champions more outings if necessary.
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Soundwave
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Captain Rodriguez
Aug 8 2016, 01:21 PM
"Individual members of the challenger/champion teams fight each other in singles" is tag team feud building 101. And it doesn't matter if someone doesn't "look strong", since at the end of the day it's about how well you function as a unit, not as a singles wrestler. Obviously this shouldn't be done for every feud since it would get formulaic, but it's something to consider to give the tag champions more outings if necessary.
They did it for Toejam and Earl vs The Dragons last season which worked out well since that was TJ&E's first singles matches ever and Billy and Jimmy also don't venture into singles much.
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Fireball Spam
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So, World Tour was a more tumultuous season than Gameshark Attack, but overall I still very much enjoyed it.

Positives


Negatives


In summation, I really liked World Tour and feel that it had a ton of fun moments. However, the few negatives it had were rather distinct, and Shadaloo was a very unfortunate case of the game's uncooperative actions hurting a plot hard a la Season 8, compounded by Bison actively sabotaging something the audience almost unanimously loved.
Edited by Fireball Spam, Oct 1 2016, 11:24 AM.
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